1897-s Morgan dollar DMPL obverse only?

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BenK
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1897-s Morgan dollar DMPL obverse only?

#1 Unread post by BenK »

This is ungraded (and authentic), and to me the obverse looks DMPL but the reverse looks barely PL if at all, and was hoping to get a opinion on if it is DMPL, just PL. Also, the high points on the head of obverse look like they are either worn, or most likely just a weak strike, and in that case would this grade lower because of it, the difference between a 63, 64 and 65 is huge. Thanks in advance.
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Re: 1897-s Morgan dollar DMPL obverse only?

#2 Unread post by Funky Strike »

I see pictures of coins on eBay like this all the time - I don't want to knock the sellers pics - but it's hard to tell since some sellers tend to make every coin on their page looks like it's all shiny and new.

Do you have your own pictures of the coin? Or are you thinking about buying it?

Not trying to be critical - I've bought some of these coins and they never seem to look as nice in person

Hope this helps

Michael - The Funkmeister

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Re: 1897-s Morgan dollar DMPL obverse only?

#3 Unread post by Earle42 »

...and in that case would this grade lower because of it, the difference between a 63, 64 and 65 is huge.
Unfortunately, its not that simple. There is no science at all to grading, and therefore predicting grades is a total gamble despite what many people assume/think. Please read the following to understand the facts/make better educated decisions.

Following is info concerning the actual nature of grading companies that can help people make better educated decisions.😊

Thinking of Slabbing? Make sure you understand the Facts...or You Could Lose Money.


1. The grading companies are not a way that the majority of people, even those with a great deal of experience who know what they are doing, are going to be able to use in order to make huge personal profits. Many people start using grading companies thinking they will find a way to finance their hobby, but they learn a hard lesson quickly.

2. Watch some of Daniel's videos where he gets pieces back form the grading companies. Note even people who live, eat, breath, and deal coins for a living (like Daniel) can accurately predict what grade the companies will give. And...the "fault" (not really a fault) is in a widespread mistaken perception people get from being exposed to all the slabs being sold nowadays.

Coin grading companies are a business out to make a profit - this is why they exist. They use a system where (allegedly, but in reality its normally two) three graders look at each coin and give an opinion. The company videos showing the process make you believe this is a relaxed paced process of studying each coin. In fact one PCGS video shows a number of guys sitting around a table discussing what they think a specific coin should be graded as (on youtube somewhere - sorry no link). Uh uh.

If you take a PCGS graded coin slabbed as MS64, break it out, and resubmit it to PCGS, you are never guaranteed the same grade again. The slabbed coin might come back MS62 (bad day for graders), 63, 64, 65, 66 (great day for you!). This is b/c the process is all subjective: No scientific/verifiable standards or methods are used. Personally having talked with former graders (granted - its been awhile), the process is very rushed since they told me graders are paid by how many coins they can get through in a day.

But..this is all hearsay without proof. So...
Grading the Coin Graders

Here is another good read from someone there at the start of the grading companies:
Hobby negative impacts from slabbing companies

3. People also seem to think grading companies will examine a coin to see if they can find an error and then slab it as such. But again, they ONLY GRADE coins. The companies will NOT try to find and ID an error for you. You must FIRST ID the error yourself, CHECK to see if the company you want to use recognizes that specific error, PAY them to verify the error on the label, and then you may or may not actually get what you pay for! The companies have a bad reputation for attributing errors correctly.

Link to and read (download if you want it) the pdf link in my signature as an eye opening example.

The verifiable data presented shows trusting people have spent thousands of dollars on many slabbed coins that are not what the companies claims/slabbed the coins to be.

You don't have to throw in the towel over these companies...but education about the reality of them will put you on the right pathway to dealing with them in a legit way without losing money in the process.

And…if you just like to collect slabbed coins for what they are, which makes losing/making money from slabs irrelevant, then of course enjoy them!" 😊
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: 1897-s Morgan dollar DMPL obverse only?

#4 Unread post by Daniel »

Stay away from sellers that are selling these coins, go to a reputable dealer and look at coins in hand. Please do as I ask. I know this seller and they use the same images and manipulate their images.

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Re: 1897-s Morgan dollar DMPL obverse only?

#5 Unread post by Coin Mule »

Ben, what's up. The seller you are looking at is a treeeeemendous marketer. The photos of the rolls, bags in a vault, paperwork underneath with the bank name, wow. I have been aware of this vendor since I started selling on ebay, and I can say without reserve stay away . Those coins are, in my opinion heavily dipped, the evidence of this is the silver and copper "rainbow" colored mottling on the surface, rounded edges on the letters, a severe lack of "Frost" all point to heavy dipping, which also account for the "it never looked as good in hand than in the pic. Also I will confirm what Daniel said, I see many of the same coins, photographed differently, if you look closely you can see the exact marks.

Oh yeah did I mention price, the jump on the 1878 s is from 64 to 65, 64 100 bucks wholesale to 65 at 250. Retail a 64 goes for $182 +- $12. It is a ripoff, if you want to buy raw and can't find a good dealer in your area, well there is this Daniel guy.
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CONECA and ANACS MS62 Attributed 1882 CC VAM 3 A
CONECA and ANACS MS64 Attributed 1900 P VAM 4
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