Grading the Grading Companies - Reality vs. Marketing
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Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.
5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.
6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
- Earle42
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Grading the Grading Companies - Reality vs. Marketing
The grading companies are not what an awful lot of coin hobbyists think. THe following is given to help educate people in how not to lose money using these companies.
The companies are not THE undeniable coin experts their marketing departments have swayed public opinion to believe. As with many companies nowadays, unfortunately, some "gray areas" exist. It is up to the individual to decide whether the gray areas harm the companys' actual reputations.
A grading company is a business that exists to make a profit like any other business does.
Grading companies only GRADE coins (and ID fakes).
Grading companies do not automatically inspect a coin to identify an error or a variety...they just assign a grade...unless the submitter pays an extra fee to verify and label an error or variety.
- When someone pays them to put an attribution on the slab, the companies have a bad record for making many attribution mistakes.
Grading companies do not spend very much time on each coin as is supposed and even promoted in some of their grading videos.
Any slabbed coin can be broken out, resubmitted to the same grading company, and receive a different grade.
The grading companies use no verifiable method or science used in assigning grades by these companies.
Click any of the following to enlarge and see the details for yourself.
Finding similar examples just takes time to look for them (quotations direct from PCGS website):
PCGS claims not only 3 graders per coin, but three graders "with specific skill" for a coin type are assigned to grade that coin. The following shows otherwise:
Please read the attached pdf in my signature for a thorough study, using only PCGS data linked to on their website, showing a very bad track record by their alleged Kennedy Half specialists not being able to ID an actual, and rookie level, variety attribution. Following is just one of many in the mentioned PDF:
Unfortunately the last example (and more like it) have cost people having blind faith in these companies thousand$ of dollar$ (also documented in the Pdf).
Should you throw in the towel concerning thee companies?
No.
Just be educated and "buy the coin, not the slab."
The companies are not THE undeniable coin experts their marketing departments have swayed public opinion to believe. As with many companies nowadays, unfortunately, some "gray areas" exist. It is up to the individual to decide whether the gray areas harm the companys' actual reputations.
A grading company is a business that exists to make a profit like any other business does.
Grading companies only GRADE coins (and ID fakes).
Grading companies do not automatically inspect a coin to identify an error or a variety...they just assign a grade...unless the submitter pays an extra fee to verify and label an error or variety.
- When someone pays them to put an attribution on the slab, the companies have a bad record for making many attribution mistakes.
Grading companies do not spend very much time on each coin as is supposed and even promoted in some of their grading videos.
Any slabbed coin can be broken out, resubmitted to the same grading company, and receive a different grade.
The grading companies use no verifiable method or science used in assigning grades by these companies.
Click any of the following to enlarge and see the details for yourself.
Finding similar examples just takes time to look for them (quotations direct from PCGS website):
PCGS claims not only 3 graders per coin, but three graders "with specific skill" for a coin type are assigned to grade that coin. The following shows otherwise:
Please read the attached pdf in my signature for a thorough study, using only PCGS data linked to on their website, showing a very bad track record by their alleged Kennedy Half specialists not being able to ID an actual, and rookie level, variety attribution. Following is just one of many in the mentioned PDF:
Unfortunately the last example (and more like it) have cost people having blind faith in these companies thousand$ of dollar$ (also documented in the Pdf).
Should you throw in the towel concerning thee companies?
No.
Just be educated and "buy the coin, not the slab."
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Daniel
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Re: Grading the Grading Companies - Reality vs. Marketing
I'm a little new to dealing with the grading companies, particularly PCGS. I had a few coins I wanted to get graded. I used PCGS service first through my LCS, then I bought a subscription. The majority of the time PCGS has been a total failure and I recommend people go to NCGC, ANACs, or anyone else. Here's a summary of my experience.
1. Coin A - 2020 ASE V75. Submitted via my LCS. I requested grading and a specific WWII label. PCGS put the wrong label in and sent back a PF69 rating (yes I expected a 70, but thats that)
2. Coin B - 1972-D Kennedy Half Dollar -- Submitted via my LCS. After examining this coin, having my LCS examine the coin, and comparing it to PCGS own website, we determined it was a No-FG variety. PCGS returned the coin with a label about rim damage and didn't even mention the variety.
I contacted PCGS and asked them how to resubmit Coin A for the correct label and instructions on how to crack open the case for Coin B (I couldn't even use it for face value in the slab). They instructed me to resubmit. I resubmitted both coins. I also asked PCGS to regrade the coin under their baloney No-Risk Guarantee (see below).
3. Coin A was returned with the correct label. Keep in mind they had to reslab. However, because I also asked them to regrade, they charged me $38 to reslab the coin and sent it back with the same grade.
4. Coin B was returned with no mention of the Variety. When I complained and set pictures from PCGS website and my coin (neither picture showed the FG. The PCGS customer rep said their people were "experts" and had high grading standards.
The only coin they have gotten right was the 2021 Gold Eagle Type 1 FDOI. So I give PCGS a score of 25%. PCGS is a Total Failure. I have two more PCGS vouchers in my subscription. After that, I'm through with their company. I will send the coins to NGC. And btw, I took a hammer to the Kennedy slab and will resubmit that to NCG. I have 10 more coins to grade this year and I will never use PCGS again.
1. Coin A - 2020 ASE V75. Submitted via my LCS. I requested grading and a specific WWII label. PCGS put the wrong label in and sent back a PF69 rating (yes I expected a 70, but thats that)
2. Coin B - 1972-D Kennedy Half Dollar -- Submitted via my LCS. After examining this coin, having my LCS examine the coin, and comparing it to PCGS own website, we determined it was a No-FG variety. PCGS returned the coin with a label about rim damage and didn't even mention the variety.
I contacted PCGS and asked them how to resubmit Coin A for the correct label and instructions on how to crack open the case for Coin B (I couldn't even use it for face value in the slab). They instructed me to resubmit. I resubmitted both coins. I also asked PCGS to regrade the coin under their baloney No-Risk Guarantee (see below).
3. Coin A was returned with the correct label. Keep in mind they had to reslab. However, because I also asked them to regrade, they charged me $38 to reslab the coin and sent it back with the same grade.
4. Coin B was returned with no mention of the Variety. When I complained and set pictures from PCGS website and my coin (neither picture showed the FG. The PCGS customer rep said their people were "experts" and had high grading standards.
The only coin they have gotten right was the 2021 Gold Eagle Type 1 FDOI. So I give PCGS a score of 25%. PCGS is a Total Failure. I have two more PCGS vouchers in my subscription. After that, I'm through with their company. I will send the coins to NGC. And btw, I took a hammer to the Kennedy slab and will resubmit that to NCG. I have 10 more coins to grade this year and I will never use PCGS again.
- CaptJohn2
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Re: Grading the Grading Companies - Reality vs. Marketing
Here is one I own. PCGS had the correct variety on their web site but wrong on the slab. The type obverse (2 or 3) is not even mentioned and it makes a big difference as there are MANY more obverse 3's than 2's. This is the 2. Note the huge difference in value listed on the www.coinsandcanada.com website. It is cool that the used my coin to illustrate the type 2 obverse.
- Earle42
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Re: Grading the Grading Companies - Reality vs. Marketing
That be a beauty o' an old Vicky thar!
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
Re: Grading the Grading Companies - Reality vs. Marketing
Not sure if this is the right place for this, but I came across slabbed Franklin Half's on an auction site that have. The first on is graded MS64 I think this is way off but I am no expert.The are a lot of dings in the bust , . Please help me under stand how this can be a MS64. I looked at photo grading but there is nothing like this!
- Earle42
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Re: Grading the Grading Companies - Reality vs. Marketing
You are just experiencing the reality of the grading companies despite market perception. Unfortunately the companies' slabs have cost unwary collectors thousands of dollars
And, BTW, read the PCGS guarantee carefully...it is NOT what people think. It simply states they will grade coins the way they say they perform the process.
However, if you think a submission is over graded (and like the Cap'n said - who would send on of those back in?), they will offer other options to the submitter...that also come out in the favor of PCGS.
And, BTW, read the PCGS guarantee carefully...it is NOT what people think. It simply states they will grade coins the way they say they perform the process.
However, if you think a submission is over graded (and like the Cap'n said - who would send on of those back in?), they will offer other options to the submitter...that also come out in the favor of PCGS.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
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