Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Moderator: Daniel
Forum rules
Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.
5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.
6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
Here's a link to how to post a topic with images in our community https://coinauctionshelp.com/welcome-to ... community/
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
You also agree to follow these guidelines. You must agree to these rules to be a member of this forum. NO SPAM! Spam is deleted within minutes, no spam will ever be left in our community.
1. Post a front and back image of your coin with a specific question about what you’re seeing or asking about and one coin per topic.
2. Please remove coin from the holder unless it’s US or an official mint case or unless it is graded by a grading service.
3. Images should be taken by a camera or cell phone camera, we ask that members don’t use images through a microscope screen.
4. Always start your own topic, please don’t ask about your coin or post your coin in someone else’s coin topic.
5. Do not send private messages about your coin unless an Admin ask you too and the same for sending emails through the board.
6. No spam. Do not post any links to your coin or other non-coin websites.
7. Always be respectful even if something makes you upset or you don’t agree with a member. You can always get a second opinion elsewhere. If you have an issue then politely ask an admin in an PM. PM’s are for issues, technical and personal, but not for coin questions (refer to number 5 on this list). Our community is not a soap box for complaining or drama, so please refrain from doing so here.[/size]
- Earle42
- Administrator
- Posts: 16014
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am
- Location: OH
- Has thanked: 1383 times
- Been thanked: 4993 times
Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
I do not believe there is any claim by any grading company that their slabs are airtight. That idea is, like so many other things, an assumption made by the masses.
When stored, coins degrade primarily from both exposure to air and humidity. The chemicals in the air oxidize (yup ...just like a nail rusting!) the metals and change their colors.
Since degradation/oxidation and tarnish are ugly words, we are blessed with marketers who have succeeded in getting the word "toned" (a much more marketable word) used instead.
Any cardboard in an album's construction (sorry...even Dancso albums) will help oxidize coins. The cardboard surrounding the edges of the coin absorbs humidity/atmospheric chemicals and react with your coins...specifically if in MS condition (mostly non-chemically reacted surfaces).
Removal from humidity and air is essential for maintaining an MS surface.
Cure:
1. Move to Arizona where there is very little humidity (which helps maintain chemicals in the air as well).
and/or...
2. Use holders that do not allow air circulation.
3. Also store coins in a closed container with a desiccant (silica gel packs).
Best non-cardboard solution:
1. 2X2 holders ... Yup! The old cheapie standby. When stapled inside the NON-PVC versions (likely hard to buy anything but this nowadays) are not perfectly airtight, but there likely is not going to be enough air that will be flowing over the coin's surfaces while trapped between the two plastic sheets to make much of a difference. Caution: always plier-flatten the back of installed staples! The "bumps" made by staplers are well know for ripping the plastic off of the 2X2 below it when you stack 2X2s. Or simply get a flat clinch stapler.
2a. Use coin capsules, such as Air Tite brand, which fit almost perfectly the dimensions of your coin. These capsules are likely not actually airtight either...but logically when you enclose something inside a tightly closed system with no wiggle room, air is going to have a hard time getting inside and circulating well.
But capsules are a pain to store!
Yup!
They make tubes for this. I personally have used old multiple row boxes designed to store 35mm camera slides (& include a large packet of silica gel inside).
Or...
2b. Combine the above capsules with a brand of album known as Encap coin albums. These are albums molded to hold the the capsules your coins are in.
You can buy the sheets (eBay!) separately and they fit any 3-ring binder.
But the capsules and albums cost a lot more than 2X2s!
Yup.
So get creative: Three pieces of sign-shop-left-over plexiglass scraps. Careful (!!) drilling performed with spade bit.
Those halves seen in the homemade case have been closed inside since 1982. Almost forty trips around the sun w/out being stored correctly a lot of that time (basement - humid - I was younger), and yet no tarnish/degradation/damage (oops) "toning!"
3. Honorable mention. Ever see those food vacuum storing systems that use plastic bags? I store some coins such as rolls of old pennies in vacuum sealed bags. The bags will eventually lose the vacuum, yet I have gone three years (possibly more, I opened the bag) with with the vacuum still there! Psst...put the first vacuum sealed bag within another one. Plastic bags are inexpensive!
My vacuum source back then was inexpensive. My Mcdonald's milkshake lent me its straw when it was through (with it). Straw in bag, zip bag shut all but where the straw is inserted, inhale and pull straw out of bag while pinching shut that small area of bag left by the straw being removed.
I graduated to a large syringe and aquarium hosing next.
Then the day came...I saw a used food vacuum storage system for 3.00 at a Goodwill store. Needed cleaning though.
Summary - find some way to get as airtight a storage system as you can. Use a desiccant such as gel packets.
Oops - and you thought this book was done.
Gel packs for free!: Local furniture stores pay for garbage to hauled away. This includes many large gel packs shipped to them with every piece of furniture. Get friendly. Ask them to hang a Walmart bag up in the back room where they unbox things. I got a lifetime supply in one month and the landfill thanked me.
When stored, coins degrade primarily from both exposure to air and humidity. The chemicals in the air oxidize (yup ...just like a nail rusting!) the metals and change their colors.
Since degradation/oxidation and tarnish are ugly words, we are blessed with marketers who have succeeded in getting the word "toned" (a much more marketable word) used instead.
Any cardboard in an album's construction (sorry...even Dancso albums) will help oxidize coins. The cardboard surrounding the edges of the coin absorbs humidity/atmospheric chemicals and react with your coins...specifically if in MS condition (mostly non-chemically reacted surfaces).
Removal from humidity and air is essential for maintaining an MS surface.
Cure:
1. Move to Arizona where there is very little humidity (which helps maintain chemicals in the air as well).
and/or...
2. Use holders that do not allow air circulation.
3. Also store coins in a closed container with a desiccant (silica gel packs).
Best non-cardboard solution:
1. 2X2 holders ... Yup! The old cheapie standby. When stapled inside the NON-PVC versions (likely hard to buy anything but this nowadays) are not perfectly airtight, but there likely is not going to be enough air that will be flowing over the coin's surfaces while trapped between the two plastic sheets to make much of a difference. Caution: always plier-flatten the back of installed staples! The "bumps" made by staplers are well know for ripping the plastic off of the 2X2 below it when you stack 2X2s. Or simply get a flat clinch stapler.
2a. Use coin capsules, such as Air Tite brand, which fit almost perfectly the dimensions of your coin. These capsules are likely not actually airtight either...but logically when you enclose something inside a tightly closed system with no wiggle room, air is going to have a hard time getting inside and circulating well.
But capsules are a pain to store!
Yup!
They make tubes for this. I personally have used old multiple row boxes designed to store 35mm camera slides (& include a large packet of silica gel inside).
Or...
2b. Combine the above capsules with a brand of album known as Encap coin albums. These are albums molded to hold the the capsules your coins are in.
You can buy the sheets (eBay!) separately and they fit any 3-ring binder.
But the capsules and albums cost a lot more than 2X2s!
Yup.
So get creative: Three pieces of sign-shop-left-over plexiglass scraps. Careful (!!) drilling performed with spade bit.
Those halves seen in the homemade case have been closed inside since 1982. Almost forty trips around the sun w/out being stored correctly a lot of that time (basement - humid - I was younger), and yet no tarnish/degradation/damage (oops) "toning!"
3. Honorable mention. Ever see those food vacuum storing systems that use plastic bags? I store some coins such as rolls of old pennies in vacuum sealed bags. The bags will eventually lose the vacuum, yet I have gone three years (possibly more, I opened the bag) with with the vacuum still there! Psst...put the first vacuum sealed bag within another one. Plastic bags are inexpensive!
My vacuum source back then was inexpensive. My Mcdonald's milkshake lent me its straw when it was through (with it). Straw in bag, zip bag shut all but where the straw is inserted, inhale and pull straw out of bag while pinching shut that small area of bag left by the straw being removed.
I graduated to a large syringe and aquarium hosing next.
Then the day came...I saw a used food vacuum storage system for 3.00 at a Goodwill store. Needed cleaning though.
Summary - find some way to get as airtight a storage system as you can. Use a desiccant such as gel packets.
Oops - and you thought this book was done.
Gel packs for free!: Local furniture stores pay for garbage to hauled away. This includes many large gel packs shipped to them with every piece of furniture. Get friendly. Ask them to hang a Walmart bag up in the back room where they unbox things. I got a lifetime supply in one month and the landfill thanked me.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Daniel
- Administrator
- Posts: 26520
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Has thanked: 1148 times
- Been thanked: 4160 times
- Contact:
-
- Coinasieur
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:43 pm
- Has thanked: 298 times
- Been thanked: 51 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Very Good Post with Great Information. I am sorry I hadn't got down this far, or I would not have had to ask the question. Thanks Again
Jeanne
- Mrweaseluv
- Coin Wizz
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:32 pm
- Has thanked: 132 times
- Been thanked: 200 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Most has already been said, I swear by Ursae Minoris slab cases (with desicant packets) Solid, safe and dry storage for slabbed coins.. well made of aluminum sheeting (not foil coated plastic) can be a little more expensive then other cases, but I think the quality of these cases speaks for itself... blazes $50 is nothing compared to the cost of even one high grade coin... so far i have 2 20s 2 30s and 1 50, but I ordered a 2nd one just yesterday lol. Made for and sold by little bear collectables...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153833126339?_ ... %3A2047675
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153833126339?_ ... %3A2047675
- Paul
- Master Die Variety Examiner
- Posts: 19097
- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 9:19 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Has thanked: 906 times
- Been thanked: 3323 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Great topic Earle! All good points! I've thought about this subject and my coins a lot over the years. I'm skeptical of everything. I've used silica gel packs, ziploc bags, etc.. but could they be giving off harmful fumes?.. I don't know.
I have a 5 foot gun safe in the basement. I have a dehumidifier, so it's not damp down there......I keep a couple of cups of common (uncooked ) rice in the bottom of the save. The rice "should" absorb moisture........who knows? Could the rice be giving off harmful fumes?
And like you said, even this.......just take out the meat!
I have a 5 foot gun safe in the basement. I have a dehumidifier, so it's not damp down there......I keep a couple of cups of common (uncooked ) rice in the bottom of the save. The rice "should" absorb moisture........who knows? Could the rice be giving off harmful fumes?
And like you said, even this.......just take out the meat!
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Another thought just hit me. The Smithsonian has a huge coin collection. They are all about conservation and preservation. Whatever they do, that's what we should probably do!
- Mrweaseluv
- Coin Wizz
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:32 pm
- Has thanked: 132 times
- Been thanked: 200 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Those "morons" that the smithsonian coat the coins with a type of wax for storage, same as they use for other antiquities... preserves the coin perfectly.. removing the wax is the issue and 99.99999% of the time leaves you with a "cleaned" coin.. No we do not want to use their methods unless you considering LONG term (100yr plus) storage :D
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Didn't know that. Okay, thanks!Mrweaseluv wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:35 pmThose "morons" that the smithsonian coat the coins with a type of wax for storage, same as they use for other antiquities... preserves the coin perfectly.. removing the wax is the issue and 99.99999% of the time leaves you with a "cleaned" coin.. No we do not want to use their methods unless you considering LONG term (100yr plus) storage :D
- Earle42
- Administrator
- Posts: 16014
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am
- Location: OH
- Has thanked: 1383 times
- Been thanked: 4993 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
The silica gel gives off nothing. After awhile (sorry I don't know how long - but its not hard to find online) the silica gel can be revitalized by heating it.USSID18 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:29 pm Great topic Earle! All good points! I've thought about this subject and my coins a lot over the years. I'm skeptical of everything. I've used silica gel packs, ziploc bags, etc.. but could they be giving off harmful fumes?.. I don't know.
I have a 5 foot gun safe in the basement. I have a dehumidifier, so it's not damp down there......I keep a couple of cups of common (uncooked ) rice in the bottom of the save. The rice "should" absorb moisture........who knows? Could the rice be giving off harmful fumes?
And like you said, even this.......just take out the meat!
As to rice, I honestly don't know. I would not think it gives off anything, but am not 100% sure.
Any plastic bad/capsule/etc. not containing PVC is Ok for coin storage.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
-
- Coin Collector
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:27 pm
- Has thanked: 93 times
- Been thanked: 23 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
At my company, we ran a series of experiments of preventing (jewelry) silver tarnish several years ago. Silver tarnish is caused when silver reacts with compounds that emit sulfur or sulfides. Cooked egg yolks are an example of an item that emits a great deal of sulfurous gas. We tried rice, which absorbed a great deal of moisture. We tried desiccant in the form of desipak brand dried clay, which absorbed a great deal of moisture. However, while the absorption of moisture assisted, it did not fully remove the sulfurous gases. Charcoal did. At one time 3M made these activated charcoal strips, but I am not sure if they still do. They are expensive and of limited use, but greatly admired by silver jewelry owners. We sold, for a while, bamboo charcoal, but we have since ceased since there was limited demand. It worked fine. There are also toxic heavy metal coated cloths used by jewelers and others that assist in preservation, and use ingredients like nickel nitrate. They are often marketed for silverware. I do not know of any specifically for coins. I cannot speak on the preservation of coins that contain complex alloys as our tests were specifically on sterling silver.
- Earle42
- Administrator
- Posts: 16014
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:18 am
- Location: OH
- Has thanked: 1383 times
- Been thanked: 4993 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Great to hear from a specialist!
You mentioned rice. what were your findings?
Sterling is 92.5% silver.
Circulated US silver coins are 90% (some Kenedy halves = 40%).
Bullion coins are typically 99.9% silver (and some finer).
It would be interesting to know how much the non-silver alloy content of these are/are not affected under similar conditions.
You mentioned rice. what were your findings?
Sterling is 92.5% silver.
Circulated US silver coins are 90% (some Kenedy halves = 40%).
Bullion coins are typically 99.9% silver (and some finer).
It would be interesting to know how much the non-silver alloy content of these are/are not affected under similar conditions.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8
How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?
- Daniel
- Administrator
- Posts: 26520
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:59 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Has thanked: 1148 times
- Been thanked: 4160 times
- Contact:
-
- Coinasieur
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:43 pm
- Has thanked: 298 times
- Been thanked: 51 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Okay, from reading all this, am I reading it correctly that I could even keep the special edition W penny and the W nickel in the little baggy and envelope that it came in and it would be, o.k.? I am a nervous reck worrying about handling it even with gloves on. Earl said putting in capsule would be best for long term. I think I can wait a few weeks without handling to put in the capsule.
On another note, I read that only certain silica doesn't give off anything and those are the ones that say safe for food, or specifically state they don't. I had to buy some recently.
Thanks you all!
On another note, I read that only certain silica doesn't give off anything and those are the ones that say safe for food, or specifically state they don't. I had to buy some recently.
Thanks you all!
Jeanne
-
- Coin Collector
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:27 pm
- Has thanked: 93 times
- Been thanked: 23 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
As to rice, we took plain dry, uncooked rice and added it to a humidor. Inside that container was added a small amount of water, if memory serves about 15 mL. And a half of a boiled egg as a source of sulfur ( H2S). Each item was weighed before and after. A sterling silver piece of flat surfaced jewelry. An earring. We rubbed it down to make sure no anti- tarnish surface ingredient existed.
The humidor was transparent glass. So it was quite easy to monitor the color change of the silver from a golden tone, to lavender, to purple until blackened, had We have proceeded that far.
The rice soaked up the humidity very, very well, . There was virtually no assistance in removing the sulfurous gasses, so the silver began to tarnish.
Desipak worked virtually the same. Great at absorbing moisture, minimal or nil at " sulfur".
We chose boiled egg yolks rather than ammonium sulfide for safety. And since it was in the office area, it minimized odors as we opened and checked results.
Again, charcoal worked amazingly well at preventing tarnish of the silver. So much so, we sold sachets of bamboo charcoal for quite a while to jewelry retailers. There just was not enough sales volume to continue the sales.
So, did it work with silver coins. We only used .999, and yes it did.
The charcoal absorbed moisture quite well, so any copper or iron item would most likely be well maintained. But we did not experiment on those items. Nor brass.
There was a function of maximum efficiency. Once the charcoal absorbed a great deal of moisture and pollution, it became less effective. Our suggestion was a 3 month change out.
That was, maybe 10 or 12 years ago, and I am quoting from an aging memory, but that sums up the essentials of the lab testing.
Thanks for letting me share this.
I guess I should make one other thing clear. The charcoal was in a sachet made of a fabric similar to that of a tea bag. Yes, we did try smashed up charcoal briquettes, which were pretty useless as best as i recall. All " charcoal " is not the same.
The humidor was transparent glass. So it was quite easy to monitor the color change of the silver from a golden tone, to lavender, to purple until blackened, had We have proceeded that far.
The rice soaked up the humidity very, very well, . There was virtually no assistance in removing the sulfurous gasses, so the silver began to tarnish.
Desipak worked virtually the same. Great at absorbing moisture, minimal or nil at " sulfur".
We chose boiled egg yolks rather than ammonium sulfide for safety. And since it was in the office area, it minimized odors as we opened and checked results.
Again, charcoal worked amazingly well at preventing tarnish of the silver. So much so, we sold sachets of bamboo charcoal for quite a while to jewelry retailers. There just was not enough sales volume to continue the sales.
So, did it work with silver coins. We only used .999, and yes it did.
The charcoal absorbed moisture quite well, so any copper or iron item would most likely be well maintained. But we did not experiment on those items. Nor brass.
There was a function of maximum efficiency. Once the charcoal absorbed a great deal of moisture and pollution, it became less effective. Our suggestion was a 3 month change out.
That was, maybe 10 or 12 years ago, and I am quoting from an aging memory, but that sums up the essentials of the lab testing.
Thanks for letting me share this.
I guess I should make one other thing clear. The charcoal was in a sachet made of a fabric similar to that of a tea bag. Yes, we did try smashed up charcoal briquettes, which were pretty useless as best as i recall. All " charcoal " is not the same.
-
- Coin Collector
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:27 pm
- Has thanked: 93 times
- Been thanked: 23 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Silica gel is quite different physically from silica sand, or even powder. Through complicated physical and chemical manufacturing processes, the silica can be made to have porosity which entraps moisture molecules of water. So, a silica gel packet or sachet is not the same as having a packet of powdered sand (quartz, etc.).
In somewhat the same way, specially prepared and porous charcoal is not the same has having a sachet of powdered soot or coal or other carbon.
In somewhat the same way, specially prepared and porous charcoal is not the same has having a sachet of powdered soot or coal or other carbon.
-
- Coinasieur
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:43 pm
- Has thanked: 298 times
- Been thanked: 51 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
Great thank you I bought some of these about a month ago. Not the size of a tea bag a bit bigger. Charcoal inside the outside is fabric. I have silica gel desiccants also. Plus, don't laugh but a box of backing soda like you put in the fridge. To be on the safe side I better add the rice also. Oh, I forgot... I put on the bottom of the shelf the poddy pads I use for my dog as they absorb. Until I know what I am doing I am playing it safe.richard560729 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:47 pm guess I should make one other thing clear. The charcoal was in a sachet made of a fabric similar to that of a tea bag. Yes, we did try smashed up charcoal briquettes, which were pretty useless as best as i recall. All " charcoal " is not the same.
Thanks for sharing now I know they are doing some good. :)
Jeanne
-
- Coin Collector
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:27 pm
- Has thanked: 93 times
- Been thanked: 23 times
Re: Safe Coin Storage...aka. No, Virginia, slabs are not airtight
I had forgot about that. Yes, in our tests, we did try Baking Soda once overnight. Dry out of the box, it absorbed moisture, but we were disappointed in its performance reducing sulfur fumes from the air. My only thought was that in a refrigerator there is air circulation, while in a closed humidor there is not. So how that would affect its use in preventing polluting air that would tone a coin, much extra research would have to be devoted.
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 7 Replies
- 612 Views
-
Last post by Matthudson
-
- 4 Replies
- 795 Views
-
Last post by miker
-
- 3 Replies
- 329 Views
-
Last post by Earle42
-
- 2 Replies
- 320 Views
-
Last post by Earle42
-
- 2 Replies
- 1904 Views
-
Last post by Earle42
-
- 1 Replies
- 1217 Views
-
Last post by tbird165
-
- 2 Replies
- 985 Views
-
Last post by Maineman750
-
- 9 Replies
- 7123 Views
-
Last post by Daniel
-
- 0 Replies
- 6787 Views
-
Last post by SensibleSal66
-
- 2 Replies
- 567 Views
-
Last post by Earle42