1898 gold 5 rubles coins

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CDisnuts
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1898 gold 5 rubles coins

#1 Unread post by CDisnuts »

Hello,

I've recently inherited a bag of old coins. One of them was beautiful gold 5 rubles 1898 L coin (an unfortunate date, but I am still grateful that my ancestors kept it for over a century). Specs: W: 4.27g, d=18.5mm, t=1.1mm.

1) Based on the condition, would you suggest sending it for grading? This graded coin looks similar condition-wise https://www.ebay.com/itm/403898546598?h ... R86qhOPyYA It seems like, it won't be worth it unless I get a MS grade.
2) I've never cleaned gold coins before, so what would suggest I should use? Acetone and q-tips?
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Re: 1898 gold 5 rubles coins

#2 Unread post by SensibleSal66 »

No grading in my opinion. Although I can't help with cleaning of Gold coins, I'm sure someone else here can.... :think:
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Casual Collector 40+ years , 10 years Error coins ( still learning).

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Earle42
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Re: 1898 gold 5 rubles coins

#3 Unread post by Earle42 »

Nice coin!

1. Everything you need to know about coin conservation:
:text-link:
https://coinauctionshelp.com/forum/view ... hp?t=20498


2.
... would you suggest sending it for grading?
I would not pay to have your coin graded. I would be afraid of the substantial damage on the ear meaning you would spend a lot of money to get back a coin in a "body bag" labeled as "damaged."




*********************************************************************************************************************
3. As to getting ANY coin graded, you need to ask yourself why you would want to spend the money to do it.

If you enjoy losing money, skip reading the following essay :D

The Insider's Guide to Using Grading Companies
-or-
Thinking of Slabbing? Make sure you understand the Facts...or You Could Lose Money.

Popular mistaken mindset:
1. The grading companies are not a way that the majority of people, even those with a great deal of experience who know what they are doing, are going to be able to use in order to make huge personal profits. Many people start using grading companies thinking they will find a way to finance their hobby, but they learn a hard lesson quickly.

In general, the coin you have found in circulation is NOT going to make huge profits if slabbed. Way too many people pad the pockets of the companies and get nothing in return b/c they THINK (youtube videos!) they have something rare.

Professional predicting not possible:
2. Watch some of Daniel's videos where he gets slabbed coins back from the grading companies. Note even people who live, eat, breath, and deal coins for a living (like Daniel) can accurately predict what grade the companies will give. And...the "fault" (not really a fault) is in a widespread mistaken perception people get from being exposed to all the slabs being sold nowadays:

a. Coin grading companies are a business out to make a profit - this is why they exist. They use a system where allegedly three, but in reality its normally two, graders look at each coin and give an opinion. The company videos showing the process make you believe this is a relaxed and paced process of studying each coin. In fact one PCGS video shows a number of guys sitting around a table discussing what they think a specific coin should be graded as (on youtube somewhere - sorry no link). Uh uh.

b. If you take a PCGS graded coin slabbed as MS64, break it out, and resubmit it to PCGS, you are never guaranteed the same grade again. The slabbed coin might come back MS62 (extreme and a bad day for graders), 63, 64, 65, 66 (extreme and a great day for you!). This is b/c the process is all subjective: No scientific/verifiable standards or methods are used. This subjectivity makes for greater company profits since people resubmit the same coin trying to get a higher (better price when selling) grade. In the 90s the companies, at great expense, created better (their own words) scientific methods not relying upon human opinion. No doubt the large profit from the re-slabbing game fell. The companies abandoned the science and went back to their less accurate systems.

c. It needs be mentioned that the fewer the "money grade" slabs a company assigns, the more prices of said slabs climbs. Thus more business is generated b/c more people pay to slab coins hoping to get that "money grade" slab. And the companies do keep records (accessible online) of how many of the higher graded slabs exist for each coin. While the idea of keeping money grade slabs minimized is speculative, there has been some convincing evidence of this being reality.

But..this is all hearsay without proof. So...
Grading the Coin Graders

Here is another good read from someone there at the start of the grading companies:
Hobby negative impacts from slabbing companies

Error on errors:
3. People also seem to think grading companies will examine a coin to see if they can find an error and then slab it as such. But again, they ONLY GRADE coins. The companies will NOT try to find and ID an error for you. You must FIRST ID the error yourself, CHECK to see if the company you want to use recognizes that specific error, PAY them to verify the error on the label, and then you may or may not actually get what you pay for! The companies have a bad reputation for attributing errors incorrectly.

Link to and read (download if you want it) the pdf link in my signature as an eye opening example. Sadly, the verifiable data presented from the PCGS website shows trusting people have spent thousands of dollars on many slabbed coins that are not what the companies claims/slabbed the coins to be.

Cost concerns:
4. B/c people do not understand the businesses, so very many people end up with spending far more money to slab a coin than the coin is worth. The companies profit greatly with membership fees, submission fees, insurance fees, shipping fees and extra (chosen) fees. ANACs does not have all these fees though.


You don't have to throw in the towel over these companies...but education about the reality of them will put you on the right pathway to dealing with them in a legit way without losing money in the process.


And…if you just like to collect slabbed coins for what they are, which makes losing/making money from slabs irrelevant, then of course enjoy them!" 😊
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: 1898 gold 5 rubles coins

#4 Unread post by CDisnuts »

Honestly, I just wanted to get it slabbed.
Yeah, there is definitely some metal movement. I didn't even notice the flattened ear. I was stunned by the resemblance between Nikolai the 2nd and KG the 5th. Didn't even know they were cousins.

Thanks for the comprehensive info as always.

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Re: 1898 gold 5 rubles coins

#5 Unread post by Earle42 »

CDisnuts wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:49 pm Honestly, I just wanted to get it slabbed.
Go for it...and let us see it when you get it back :D

It's a nice looking coin.

BTW - not sure if you have chosen a company or not, but ANACS would be the least expensive since they don't force a membership fee etc. on you. And although the mass mindset (sorry - IMO it's fad-like) says PCGS is best, NGC 2nd,, then ANACS, I cannot find any validity in this (especially when dealing with something where no verifiable standard is used).

I also find it interesting that like with most name brand fads (based on nothing verifiable), the costlier brands are the ones people will "defend."

But again...if someone just likes one better - there is no right or wrong - hobbies are for fun.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

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Re: 1898 gold 5 rubles coins

#6 Unread post by CDisnuts »

Earle42 wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:40 pm
CDisnuts wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:49 pm Honestly, I just wanted to get it slabbed.
Go for it...and let us see it when you get it back :D

It's a nice looking coin.

BTW - not sure if you have chosen a company or not, but ANACS would be the least expensive since they don't force a membership fee etc. on you. And although the mass mindset (sorry - IMO it's fad-like) says PCGS is best, NGC 2nd,, then ANACS, I cannot find any validity in this (especially when dealing with something where no verifiable standard is used).

I also find it interesting that like with most name brand fads (based on nothing verifiable), the costlier brands are the ones people will "defend."

But again...if someone just likes one better - there is no right or wrong - hobbies are for fun.
If the coin's damaged, it's not worth sending. I am really concerned about the ear now. idk, maybe I take a shot at it when I get a few more coins that I really like.

The same story with sports and anime cards. The most "reputable" company named PSA is considered the best, but the reality is the company purposely downgrades the cards. When it's "harder" to get a gem mint grade, the potential value goes up. That's how they make extra cash. :liar:
I agree, there's no right or wrong, but CGC is the way.

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Re: 1898 gold 5 rubles coins

#7 Unread post by Earle42 »

Just in case...you can buy slabs to put your own coins in. So if you are concerned (I personally would be) about the damage, you could go this route also.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

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Re: 1898 gold 5 rubles coins

#8 Unread post by Daniel »

The coin has issues and wouldn’t be a candidate for submission if I owned the coin.

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