Domitian 89 A.D.

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JMK2022
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Domitian 89 A.D.

#1 Unread post by JMK2022 »

There's a funny story about this coin. I had a customer years ago that got into a coin conversation while we were up on his roof, working on his solar heating system. His elderly sister had died months earlier, and he was responsible for liquidating all. He surprised me by saying, hey, before you leave, remind me, I've got some foreign coins I'd like to give you" (knowing I collected coins).

He and his wife were world travellers, so I truly expected some recent era world coins, from their travels. When I left, he handed me a box slightly smaller than a brick, with a fair amount of weight to it. When I got home, and checked things, I found some very interesting coins, with a few dating back to a King Edward II from ~1307 A.D. This Domitian was among those coins, and honestly it was so far out of my wheelhouse that I just put it aside, thinking that being drilled had basically destroyed it. It was only recently that I ran across it, and decided to see if I could figure it out. I posted to another Forum, and got pointed in the direction of Domitian (I had no clue!), and started focusing my research there. Of course, I was shocked to learn its' history, and age, and, yet, minimal value. Still, it is my oldest coin, that I know of. It's not the oldest thing in my house (petrified wood is...), but I'm still very curious to know more, if anyone has anything to offer. I have never seen this exact coin in the dozens and dozens of Domitian coins I've researched. It appears to be a bronze, about the size of a quarter, but slightly thicker. That's about all I know, except I now presume it was drilled to be hung on a necklace. I notice very few other Domitians that are drilled, so, I dont know if that's good or bad. I suspect it doesn't matter much, on a coin this old.

And that brings up one last point. To slab, or not to slab?? If I did, I'd probably go to a local coin dealer, and have them send it off with other coins, maybe saving a little. The only thing I've slabbed so far were a couple 1891 Canadian Large Cents in AU Red Brown SDSL variety, and I walked them into the slabber in Tampa, when I lived there. That made sense.

Thanks, in advance,

Joe
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Re: Domitian 89 A.D.

#2 Unread post by SensibleSal66 »

Cool Coin but wouldn't be considered damaged because of the hole? Not to mention it's poor condition. I understand its age but don't understand the decision to have slabbed and graded.
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Re: Domitian 89 A.D.

#3 Unread post by Earle42 »

Great story...thanks for sharing!

1. Slabbing:
Ask yourself why you are thinking of slabbing:
1. You just like slabbed coins...good reason.
2. You want to sell it for profit (typically slabs get better prices).
- in this case be prepared to spend close to 100.00 for the plastic - which is likely a lot more than the coin is worth, so the company eats any profits (plus!) you would be thinking of by selling.

Other than those two ideas there is no real reason (except the modern marketing-drive mindset say people "should" slab coins....just because).

2. And a bit more help for which I have been thanked many times now:

If you enjoy losing money, skip reading the following essay :D

The Insider's Guide to Using Grading Companies
-or-
Thinking of Slabbing? Make sure you understand the Facts...or You Could Lose Money.

Popular mistaken mindset:
1. The grading companies are not a way that the majority of people, even those with a great deal of experience who know what they are doing, are going to be able to use in order to make huge personal profits. Many people start using grading companies thinking they will find a way to finance their hobby, but they learn a hard lesson quickly.

In general, the coin you have found in circulation is NOT going to make huge profits if slabbed. Way too many people pad the pockets of the companies and get nothing in return b/c they THINK (youtube videos!) they have something rare.

Professional predicting not possible:
2. Watch some of Daniel's videos where he gets slabbed coins back from the grading companies. Note even people who live, eat, breath, and deal coins for a living (like Daniel) can accurately predict what grade the companies will give. And...the "fault" (not really a fault) is in a widespread mistaken perception people get from being exposed to all the slabs being sold nowadays:

a. Coin grading companies are a business out to make a profit - this is why they exist. They use a system where allegedly three, but in reality its normally two, graders look at each coin and give an opinion. The company videos showing the process make you believe this is a relaxed and paced process of studying each coin. In fact one PCGS video shows a number of guys sitting around a table discussing what they think a specific coin should be graded as (on youtube somewhere - sorry no link). Uh uh.

b. If you take a PCGS graded coin slabbed as MS64, break it out, and resubmit it to PCGS, you are never guaranteed the same grade again. The slabbed coin might come back MS62 (extreme and a bad day for graders), 63, 64, 65, 66 (extreme and a great day for you!). This is b/c the process is all subjective: No scientific/verifiable standards or methods are used. This subjectivity makes for greater company profits since people resubmit the same coin trying to get a higher (better price when selling) grade. In the 90s the companies, at great expense, created better (their own words) scientific methods not relying upon human opinion. No doubt the large profit from the re-slabbing game fell. The companies abandoned the science and went back to their less accurate systems.

c. It needs be mentioned that the fewer the "money grade" slabs a company assigns, the more prices of said slabs climbs. Thus more business is generated b/c more people pay to slab coins hoping to get that "money grade" slab. And the companies do keep records (accessible online) of how many of the higher graded slabs exist for each coin. While the idea of keeping money grade slabs minimized is speculative, there has been some convincing evidence of this being reality.

But..this is all hearsay without proof. So...
Grading the Coin Graders

Here is another good read from someone there at the start of the grading companies:
Hobby negative impacts from slabbing companies

Error on errors:
3. People also seem to think grading companies will examine a coin to see if they can find an error and then slab it as such. But again, they ONLY GRADE coins. The companies will NOT try to find and ID an error for you. You must FIRST ID the error yourself, CHECK to see if the company you want to use recognizes that specific error, PAY them to verify the error on the label, and then you may or may not actually get what you pay for! The companies have a bad reputation for attributing errors incorrectly.

Link to and read (download if you want it) the pdf link in my signature as an eye opening example. Sadly, the verifiable data presented from the PCGS website shows trusting people have spent thousands of dollars on many slabbed coins that are not what the companies claims/slabbed the coins to be.

Cost concerns:
4. B/c people do not understand the businesses, so very many people end up with spending far more money to slab a coin than the coin is worth. The companies profit greatly with membership fees, submission fees, insurance fees, shipping fees and extra (chosen) fees. ANACs does not have all these fees though.


You don't have to throw in the towel over these companies...but education about the reality of them will put you on the right pathway to dealing with them in a legit way without losing money in the process.


And…if you just like to collect slabbed coins for what they are, which makes losing/making money from slabs irrelevant, then of course enjoy them!" 😊
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

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Re: Domitian 89 A.D.

#4 Unread post by JMK2022 »

Thanks for the response, Earle!

You wrote:
Slabbing:
Ask yourself why you are thinking of slabbing:
1. You just like slabbed coins...good reason.
2. You want to sell it for profit (typically slabs get better prices).

Actually, neither...

I do like slabbed coins, but, I agree, mostly only far more expensive coins belong in slabs. As for selling for profit, I havent actually considered selling it. The real reason that I'd even consider slabbing it would be to make sure it never got passed over, the way I passed it over myself, and possibly to get some level of concurrence on its authenticity, and grade. I don't really do ancients, except for a very few others that my dad purchased years ago, and, search as I may, through dozens and dozens of other Dimitian coins, I never saw a single exact duplicate anywhere. I'm surmising that since these were likely hand made, maybe there are no exact duplicates of some coins, but I really expected that there would be one to match mine. Again, with no ancients expertise, I could be way off the mark. As previously mentioned, I did not see any drilled versions of Domitians, but anybody could have done that, at any point in the past 2,000 years, and worn it as a pendant, so that matters not.

At any rate, I realize these ancients aren't worth a ton, but just as I did, the 2,000 year old coin could get passed right over if I dont get it in some marked capsule.

Thanks again for the response!
Joe

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Re: Domitian 89 A.D.

#5 Unread post by Earle42 »

As for identification, coincommunity.com has at least one member there who could tell you what the guy who minted it ate for breakfast on his 16th birthday. Well...OK slight exaggeration...

...his 18th.


Anyway, you get the idea. I have been amazed over the years what the member Bob there has been able to ID.


As to it being genuine, while no expert, so far when ancients have been posted over there I have been testing myself for years and have done well. I beleive yours is genuine and was, more than likely, in modern times holed, as you said, for jewelry.
At any rate, I realize these ancients aren't worth a ton,
Yes, I was also surprised years ago to find you can have a pice of history like this for only 5.00! But they made so very many of them and so many have survived. They are always finding new caches of them.

What really impressed me as to how many of these are out there is one time Bob told me when I was looking for an exact duplicate of an ancient (the effigy actually resembled Commander Data from Start Trek!) that there were way too many mints that made the coin. So trying to find an exact match would be almost impossible. I had ebay alerting me for many years (no exaggeration) to every single one of those coins being listed and that exact effigy of the coin never again came up! I went through a LOT of auctions over those years.
Common grading company shortcomings & resulting co$tly mi$take$ to collectors (using Kennedy No FG halves):
https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

How much squash would a sasquatch squash if a sasquatch would squash squash?

JMK2022
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Re: Domitian 89 A.D.

#6 Unread post by JMK2022 »

Thanks, Earle! I'll check out coincommunity, and look for Bob!

👍👍

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